He's already on the road to being a full-fledged right wing martyr. The only good thing I have to say about Rogan is that thanks to him, I now know that Apple Music is better than Spotify by a wide margin.
The danger of Rogan is that he has a huge audience and is telling them vaccines don't work plus bringing on sketchy experts to spew the same. Meanwhile, he sits there mouth agape when anyone says anything at all as if he's hearing human speech for the first time. Joe Rogan's persona is of an imbecile man-child whose embrasure of bro-culture makes him act as if everything is just a bunch of guys sitting around talking nonsense after three beers. Having a guy on who says crap like Black people have a violence gene and simply saying, "I never heard that," is dangerous because it equates rubbish with things that are backed up by facts.
Re: white guy's idea of ideal white guy...Fran Lebowitz has discussed the impact of losing 650,000 gay men in the 80's and 90's. Our standards have corroded. Shout-out to my gays (h/t Kathy Griffin).
There's sadly a lot of that going around. Rather than worry about bettering themselves in whatever way focuses on improvement, they simply declare themselves great and rage against all the people who they see as keeping them down. But if they're already great, what are they mad about?
It's his actions that I'm more concerned with. Nothing good ever came out of ignoring an issue and pretending that if we just act as if it isn't there, it'll go away.
Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and others removing their music from Spotify is not censorship. Lee Pappa, a.k.a. The Rude Pundit, made a great analogy. Suppose you put on a party and one of the guests you invited is an ignorant, arrogant, vile, disgusting a-hole, so much so that other guests ask you to have him leave. You refuse, so the other guests leave instead. That is not censorship. The artists in question own their music and have no obligation to allow its use by a service that is also distributing misinformation that can, and probably already has, killed people. Also, private businesses such as Twitter are under no obligation to carry material that violates their standards. Saying otherwise is like asserting Simon & Schuster has an obligation to publish any piece-of-crap slush written by a semi-literate crank living in his mother's basement. I deleted my Spotify account beause it is my choice not to support content clearly aimed at undermining civil society, just as I killed my Facebook account three years ago. Haven't missed FB one minute and won't miss Spotify either.
There is something ugly about people trying to censor others but Americans need to grow up, shut up and learn what it means to a part of society. Do not use that the n-word or you career will be jeopardized...what is so hard about that? If Joe wants to scream the n-word, he can. Just not on the airwaves. This is capitalism at work. If artists are pulling their music from Spotify because of Joe Rogan, and users are fleeing in droves, Spotify must make a choice.
It’s not censorship to expect media outlets to have standards the enforce. As I posted above not being allowed on any of these platforms he still can say whatever he wants to anyone who will listen. The constitution gives us a right to free expression but not the right to demand we are given a megaphone to amplify our speech.
So no one is censoring anyone. Private companies have the right to pretty much do whatever they want. That’s the beauty of capitalism. Rogan is a sexist racist arrogant prick. Spotify has earned the hit to their reputation, I for one hope it costs them billions which it appears is happening. His vaccine lies are killing people, which makes him dangerous. Is that really a person you intend to defend? Also Andy Ngo? Your stripes are showing…
Thanks for staying with the story Eric. As a music maker (record producer, songwriter, guitarist, recording artist, studio owner) Spotify has been a horror show since it's inception. Listening to users rationalize their participation in the platform is deeply depressing. The Rogan Thing strikes a chord because it differentiates what they are truly willing to invest in (advancing millions for the production of a podcast with the money they have made from devaluing a whole class of people's assets). It's not just the pittance that they pay out but the awful sound. Other platforms (like Apple Music) have been collecting hi res files for over 5 years. Apple's Lossless format contains literally 20 times the sonic information than Spotify does for the listener. After years of advising folks to bypass Spotify I finally relented after listening to a talk with Brian Koppelman where he revealed that every single song that he'd ever selected for inclusion in his film and tv shows had been selected using Spotify. Film and TV is the last place where music creators actually get paid fairly so I had to relent and allow the placement. Oh, and that's my buddy Andy York playing the electric guitar on the Mellencamp/Springsteen song.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Spotify treats musicians like crap and their streaming bit rate is a horror. I'm a former classical musician, so quality really matters to me. I'm in the NEVER camp!
Anyone who defends Joe Rogan's right to spread disinformation about Covid-19 & vaccines as freedom of speech is wrong.
I don't understand how a certain group of Americans understood the First Amendment to mean they can spread disinformation & hate speech with no responsibility & accountability for consequences.
Yet these same group of Americans are okay with banning books that discuss slavery, systemic inequality, systemic racism, genocide of Native Americans & Jews, LGBTQ (particularly transgender people), etc. just because they're uncomfortable with the hard truths.
People who defend Rogan and others like him on the basis of the First Amendment might try reading it. The situation is no different than Trump and the rest of his know-nothing supporters spewing rage when Twitter banned him and invoking the First Amendment. This just in: the government can't ban free speech, but businesses can.
I think it's interesting that more people seem to be upset about the "Sad Stifling of Joe Rogan" (sounds like an idea for a folk song) than they are about a state government which is banning books in schools and wanting to monitor teachers in real time to make sure they're toeing the government line. THAT is censorship.
As a non-American living in a Third World country (Philippines) where liberal democracy is once again hanging by a thread, it's both disappointing and frustrating how your country is being ripped apart internally by forces who are afraid of REAL change & progress because they're afraid of losing their power & standing in government & society.
As a black American you are speaking to the wrong person about losing their place & standing in this country. What I see this country is greed and people who have been elected to work for the people, which means all the people haven't been doing their job for a long time. Working for the people means standing for all not just the rich , so your comment to me means very little. Rogan and people like him are racist and in it for the money and the companies who stand with his wrong doing are still the ANYTHING.
Sorry if my comment didn't land on you the way I thought it would.
I didn't make any specific examples because I thought most of the Press Run readers would get my comment about how both American mainstream & right-wing media have created a polarized political climate in your country.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my comment about the mostly white membership of the Republican Party being the major political force opposing any type of reforms in health care, immigration, criminal justice, taxation, etc.
While the Democratic Party isn't immune to resistance to change within its own ranks, the GOP has been very vocal in its opposition.
yes, my former boss at Condé Nast Entertainment is the one who did this deal, given what this person now does at spotify. I think this person, who spent 20 plus years running TV networks, got the idea in their head that the digital world is free wheeling unlike that network stuff and you can say anything, so LET'S DO THIS. but if you are as clueless about politics in the real world as this person is, this is a recipe for disaster, and it has proven such as I and many others who know this person predicted it would. The idea that once you are able to broadcast ANY idea, that you should then go for the extremes for ratings, is too tempting for a suit whose compensation includes subscription numbers bonuses. always will be.
it is clearly beyond time to revise Sec 230 of the DMCA - if you've got enough 'subscribers / viewers,' congratulations - you're a publisher!
(and no, I'm not suggesting that a a small web forum that has 1000 subscribers would be impacted - if a person wants to set up a small website to say /anything/ they should be able to, but beyond a certain scale - you've built a new kind of printing press...)
I also think that maybe it is also time to decide that since TCP/IP was developed by the government, is is a 'public good' (like the airwaves) and we can equate a DNS entry as the same as a broadcast license. (I also think we should include satellite transponders in this).
Thus FCC style limitations / rules / penalties could be made to apply to all large scale forms of public communication.
I'd really be interested in finding some lawyers from EFF and have them bat this around a bit.
Radio and TV networks had to adhere to strict standards for years thanks to FCC r regulations. Remember how Johnny Fever was fired for saying "booger" on the air? I know it was a comedy show but I would bet it happened to some DJ "in real life".
My dad, who was in radio for 60 years, told the story about a radio station which announced to its listeners that "an amoeba was loose", which resulted in widespread panic in their listening audience. I believe the FCC either levied a fine or suspended their license.
I do not understand the lingo but I have wondered WTF the FCC has been doing about sites and podcasts devoted to hate speech. They took out Howard Stern and haven't done a thing since.
the issue is; and sorry for going nerdy there earlier - the FCC only regulates *broadcast* standards. In other words, there needs to be a transmitter (big metal thing on a hill flinging electricity through the sky). This is why there are "7 words you can't say on the radio" (and in case you want to see George Carlin do it the only way he could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyBH5oNQOS0 )
Cable, Satellite, Internet - those aren't considered broadcast mediums. (This is why HBO was able to show movies with any rating, the "after dark" shows, etc). This is why Howard Stern went to Sirius/XM.
So perhaps the short version is, time to broaden the definition of the word "communication" for the FCC.
For those concerned about those 7 words on the internet; I think that the solution there might simply be technological - age ratings. YouTube already does for some content. (This will tell bored teenagers which content they *really* want to try to view. That "explicit lyrics" sticker - it really turned out to be mostly an advertisement!)
Long past time. To claim cable and the internet today are beyond "broadcast standards" thus making them exempt from regulation is laughable. Unfortunately they have very deep pockets and lobbyists making sure Congress doesn't change the rules.
its definitely a challenge; I wonder if the way-through is to get a state to do some regulation and include "any traffic that passes through the state."
Thank you for explaining it to me like I'm a five-year old. Yes, the FCC needs to recognize that we are living in the 21st century. I have an idea: let's elect Democrats who may actually care about this and change it? 😉
My mom sent this to me. Short read and please check out the short YouTube link. Roided Rogan going after a woman with a PhD in Primatology for calling in and telling him there is no such thing as the "Bondo" ape. I can't get over how he immediately snaps. Obviously his screener gave him the heads up (as they do) but he absolutely let her have it and simply would not even let her say more than 2 words without talking over her. Imagine telling someone with a PhD to "look online" regarding something they've dedicated their entire life to!
Too little attention has been given to the association between misogyny and dangerous extremism. The author of a recent Guardian article, Joan Smith, urges officials to pay more attention to misogyny when looking at risk factors for radicalization that leads to terrorism regardless of underlying ideology:
“Groundbreaking research shows that extremist attackers are often united in their violent misogyny, whatever their ideology”.
As was the case with Limbaugh, Beck and now Tucker Carlson, the bigger the audience (and paycheck) the more outrageous the content. Enough is never too much when your goal is to call attention to yourself and enrage rather than inform. And like Limbaugh and his ilk, the immediate defense for clowns and grifters like Rogan is "free speech." Spotify is NOT subject to the first amendment. Rogan and "Quack Malone" have no *right* to spew their bullshit on Spotify, and Spotify has no obligation to let them do so.
I am shocked, absolutely shocked I tell you, to discover that Spotify is all about making money. Your calling Rogan the next Rush Limbaugh is well-spotted. As we all know, there is good money to be made talking sh*t - the right wing is a money-making machine for the grifters and con men who pray on their gullible base, telling them what they want to hear.
What Rogan is doing is not all that different from what shock jocks do on the radio - calculated outrageous behavior to entertain their listeners. The difference is they have to deal with the FCC over what they can and can't say. Digital media has no such constraints and they are cashing in while they can.
There are several hate media cottage industries. 1) Anti Hillary. 2) Anti Biden. 3) Anti Democratic Party. 4) Pro hate speech, white grievance, rage and fear. What ties them all together is hatred of Black people.
No one is stripping Joe Rogan of his First Amendment protections, but he is suffering from the consequences. The system is working as designed.
As for Spotify, I’ve been boycotting it since forever, mostly because I have a handful of favorite musicians who have said that they cannot make a living from the music being on Spotify and they cannot make a living without it being on Spotify. Some have even said that they wish for the bad old days of the labels controlling everything. I’m not sure that my Apple Music subscription is a solution, but I feel good that I’m not in any way supporting Joe Rogan.
Quite a few Americans seem to have lost the plot and are equating freedom of expression with the dangerous practice of encouraging stupidity. As adults, are we not supposed to know the difference between, say, a podcast about sexual behavior and one encouraging people to go out with guns and kill people? One is controversial and harms no one, but the other potentially inspires lethal acts. By the same token, Rogan and his ilk inspire reckless behavior by spreading lies about covid and vaccines, and soon we'll be seeing a toll of 1 million dead in the US. Why the obsession with a bullshit brand of "freedom" that has lost the truth of what freedom really means (it involves responsibility and reason, otherwise it is merely license)? America continues to dumb itself down by eschewing reason in the name of "but I want it, therefore I should have it."
We knew that there would be a race to see who would fill Rush Limbaugh's shoes. Joe Rogan won. However, at least there is finally some pushback against such a dangerous voice in contrast to the free pass Limbaugh was given. These folks throwing down their free speech cards need to understand that even in 2022, you can't yell fire in a public theatre. That of course reflects the misinformation on covid. His racist remarks is in a whole other category and simply should not be tolerated. I really wish that the left leaning billionaires would promote and fund fact based progressive journalism to counter the constant haranguing from the fascists news programs that have permeated our country.
Streaming screws nearly all musicians except for superstars, and Spotify screws them more than other services.
And then Spotify also has willingly embraced the tar baby that is Rogan. (Yes, I’m familiar with where that term came from and the irony here, I have to say, cracks me up.)
Spotify went from a music-based company to a podcast one and it’s been very successful $$$. and now they’re willing to insult artists further. Will be interesting to see if more musicians stand up this week
What I’ve been wondering about is whether Spotify is out to be a profit-making business or a financial grift. Not that it matters.
As for streaming, it’s part of the current trend of disrupting a reasonably functional business in which the people who make the business a business get screwed. The classic example is Uber. The disrupting results in a business in which there isn’t all that much money to payout to creatives or workers. Again, streaming payments and Uber’s payments to its drivers.
Which brings us to an irony here, if you’re correct: Spotify moves from the sketchy economics of streaming to the highly questionable podcast business. Whether it’s much of a business is still an open question. And the ultimate question for Spotify here is what’s the argument that signing Rogan would do anything towards that goal. It seems now that I think about it, all they got for the money (besides the current tsuris) is publicity. But I would think for nearly all podcasters, being exclusive is not the way to go. In other words, without a huge upfront payment, there’s no upside for nearly any one of them to sign with Spotify.
Full disclosure: streaming is pretty good for us consumers though.
There’s a huge difference. Two different models. There is some overlap but even with that, companies are predominantly one or the other.
As I implied, if not made clear, I very occasionally try to figure out which Spotify is. They act like they’re in it to be a profitable business yet streaming is about crumbs and podcasting is even worse so I don’t know — nor care enough to do the research for an answer.
I was thinking of examples like all those banks lending institutions the issued those high risk mortgages, the prominent ratings organizations that gave top ratings to bundles of mortgages that were actually high risk. Those experiences show that even highly regarded profitable businesses can slide into grifting if there isn’t strong oversight and regulation. The push for profits over everything else that has dominated our corporate mindset since the 70s makes a shift into grifting far too likely.
That’s a profit-making business engaging in scamming — but financial businesses are outliers to my general rule. Banks (broadly speaking) are in business to and profit from grifts. But outside that exception, it’s *predominantly* one or the other I find.
Anybody remember Cliven Bundy? He's the Nevada rancher who wouldn't pay his grazing fees, and this led to a standoff, threats of violence, the Bundy family becoming right-wing heroes, the Malheur takeover, you name it.
Nevada's republican leaders were very sympathetic toward him and his plight, and defending him ... until he made racist statements. Then they all walked it back. They included Governor Brian Sandoval, who in his first campaign and first term was a right-winger, then became a moderate republican when he was term-limited and actually accomplished some good things; now he is president of the university in Reno, which happens to be a Morrill Land Grant institution, meaning it uses land that Bundy thinks was his but actually belonged to Indigenous People.
Another was Dean Heller, who as a US senator kept pushing bipartisanship while failing to pass any major bipartisan legislation, kept changing his mind about Trump, lost his reelection bid, and now is running for governor and trying to sound like Trump is too liberal for him.
To put it simply, you can no longer be a decent human being and be a loyal republican. You also cannot be a decent human being and encourage Spotify in any way.
In what screwed up society would someone like Joe Rogan be worthy of a $100 million contract to spout belligerently ignorant, uneducated, racist BS? Oh, yeah ... right.
Though if you look back to the rise of Rush and his popularity, it's been going on for a few decades now. But the unvarnished racism and nastiness from 2008 on is breathtaking. All the guardrails are gone.
WTF are you even talking about? No one here is attacking the right because of their "ideas"—or what they used to (and for some true conservatives still) espouse, like limited government, free enterprise, etc.
We're calling out the people who are purposely dividing our society and debasing fellow citizens and making them sicker. Rogan can use the N word to his heart's content—but in an enlightened, inclusive society that aims for equality, he should expect to be criticized and even ostracized.
The right has become stronger because that aren't open to disagreement and debate among themselves. Look what just happened to Kinzinger and Cheney. GOP members of Congress are terrified of their base—both in the voting booth and real physical threats—so they stand by the craziest in their party rather than calling them out. The Right built a whole ecosystem that not only amplifies the GOP's message but shapes it. Fools on the far left give them ammunition but they are a small, small part. Most liberals and Dems don't embrace and parrot their message or viewpoint.
If you think you're playing devil's advocate, your failing. Your arguments are hollow and contradictory. I suggest you take a long look in the mirror.
The Right, and the MAGA crowd, have become a cult much as the party that supported Hitler became a cult. Humans are dangerously susceptible to cults and to dangerous ideologies, which history proves. Penny is a troll who loves to play the contrarian, but she does so at the risk of being ignored by other commenters. I refuse to engage with her because she has nothing of importance to say. You waste your time by trying to explain anything to her. I'm hoping she'll simply go away again.
He's already on the road to being a full-fledged right wing martyr. The only good thing I have to say about Rogan is that thanks to him, I now know that Apple Music is better than Spotify by a wide margin.
honestly Apple Music so much better. and I love Pandora
Pandora is great if one wants the listening to a radio station experience.
You’re talking to a dead person. When you get hit by a train, all of your opinions are invalidated.
The danger of Rogan is that he has a huge audience and is telling them vaccines don't work plus bringing on sketchy experts to spew the same. Meanwhile, he sits there mouth agape when anyone says anything at all as if he's hearing human speech for the first time. Joe Rogan's persona is of an imbecile man-child whose embrasure of bro-culture makes him act as if everything is just a bunch of guys sitting around talking nonsense after three beers. Having a guy on who says crap like Black people have a violence gene and simply saying, "I never heard that," is dangerous because it equates rubbish with things that are backed up by facts.
Re: white guy's idea of ideal white guy...Fran Lebowitz has discussed the impact of losing 650,000 gay men in the 80's and 90's. Our standards have corroded. Shout-out to my gays (h/t Kathy Griffin).
I love her and I have never heard anyone else even broach the subject.
There's sadly a lot of that going around. Rather than worry about bettering themselves in whatever way focuses on improvement, they simply declare themselves great and rage against all the people who they see as keeping them down. But if they're already great, what are they mad about?
It's his actions that I'm more concerned with. Nothing good ever came out of ignoring an issue and pretending that if we just act as if it isn't there, it'll go away.
You’re obviously a MAGAT.
I'm not concerned with what you consider censorship. The government censors - I merely make choices. I have no power to censor anyone.
It's not censorship -- there are plenty of RW sites where he can spread his racism and lies.
You make a martyr out of him by exalting him for his skewed views and then killing him off. LOL
Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and others removing their music from Spotify is not censorship. Lee Pappa, a.k.a. The Rude Pundit, made a great analogy. Suppose you put on a party and one of the guests you invited is an ignorant, arrogant, vile, disgusting a-hole, so much so that other guests ask you to have him leave. You refuse, so the other guests leave instead. That is not censorship. The artists in question own their music and have no obligation to allow its use by a service that is also distributing misinformation that can, and probably already has, killed people. Also, private businesses such as Twitter are under no obligation to carry material that violates their standards. Saying otherwise is like asserting Simon & Schuster has an obligation to publish any piece-of-crap slush written by a semi-literate crank living in his mother's basement. I deleted my Spotify account beause it is my choice not to support content clearly aimed at undermining civil society, just as I killed my Facebook account three years ago. Haven't missed FB one minute and won't miss Spotify either.
There is something ugly about people trying to censor others but Americans need to grow up, shut up and learn what it means to a part of society. Do not use that the n-word or you career will be jeopardized...what is so hard about that? If Joe wants to scream the n-word, he can. Just not on the airwaves. This is capitalism at work. If artists are pulling their music from Spotify because of Joe Rogan, and users are fleeing in droves, Spotify must make a choice.
It’s not censorship to expect media outlets to have standards the enforce. As I posted above not being allowed on any of these platforms he still can say whatever he wants to anyone who will listen. The constitution gives us a right to free expression but not the right to demand we are given a megaphone to amplify our speech.
What Theodora says.
Kara Swisher made an interesting point recently: it’s not censorship, it’s fact-checking.
So no one is censoring anyone. Private companies have the right to pretty much do whatever they want. That’s the beauty of capitalism. Rogan is a sexist racist arrogant prick. Spotify has earned the hit to their reputation, I for one hope it costs them billions which it appears is happening. His vaccine lies are killing people, which makes him dangerous. Is that really a person you intend to defend? Also Andy Ngo? Your stripes are showing…
Yes. We’ll see. I’m betting he eventually gets canned…
Thanks for staying with the story Eric. As a music maker (record producer, songwriter, guitarist, recording artist, studio owner) Spotify has been a horror show since it's inception. Listening to users rationalize their participation in the platform is deeply depressing. The Rogan Thing strikes a chord because it differentiates what they are truly willing to invest in (advancing millions for the production of a podcast with the money they have made from devaluing a whole class of people's assets). It's not just the pittance that they pay out but the awful sound. Other platforms (like Apple Music) have been collecting hi res files for over 5 years. Apple's Lossless format contains literally 20 times the sonic information than Spotify does for the listener. After years of advising folks to bypass Spotify I finally relented after listening to a talk with Brian Koppelman where he revealed that every single song that he'd ever selected for inclusion in his film and tv shows had been selected using Spotify. Film and TV is the last place where music creators actually get paid fairly so I had to relent and allow the placement. Oh, and that's my buddy Andy York playing the electric guitar on the Mellencamp/Springsteen song.
yes Spotify has been awful $$$ to artists and now their willing to insult them further by siding w/ Rogan
Yes! Yes! Yes! Spotify treats musicians like crap and their streaming bit rate is a horror. I'm a former classical musician, so quality really matters to me. I'm in the NEVER camp!
I like trains….when they run me over.
Respectfully, WtF?
It's a troll stupid enough to spend $6 to write nasty shit on Eric's blog.
Good to know, and I played the song twice because the guitar is gorgeous!
Anyone who defends Joe Rogan's right to spread disinformation about Covid-19 & vaccines as freedom of speech is wrong.
I don't understand how a certain group of Americans understood the First Amendment to mean they can spread disinformation & hate speech with no responsibility & accountability for consequences.
Yet these same group of Americans are okay with banning books that discuss slavery, systemic inequality, systemic racism, genocide of Native Americans & Jews, LGBTQ (particularly transgender people), etc. just because they're uncomfortable with the hard truths.
People who defend Rogan and others like him on the basis of the First Amendment might try reading it. The situation is no different than Trump and the rest of his know-nothing supporters spewing rage when Twitter banned him and invoking the First Amendment. This just in: the government can't ban free speech, but businesses can.
I think it's interesting that more people seem to be upset about the "Sad Stifling of Joe Rogan" (sounds like an idea for a folk song) than they are about a state government which is banning books in schools and wanting to monitor teachers in real time to make sure they're toeing the government line. THAT is censorship.
Thank you for speaking the truth. If you stand for wrong you'll stand for anything. So we know the people who stand with Rogan are the ANYTHING.
Your welcome.
As a non-American living in a Third World country (Philippines) where liberal democracy is once again hanging by a thread, it's both disappointing and frustrating how your country is being ripped apart internally by forces who are afraid of REAL change & progress because they're afraid of losing their power & standing in government & society.
As a black American you are speaking to the wrong person about losing their place & standing in this country. What I see this country is greed and people who have been elected to work for the people, which means all the people haven't been doing their job for a long time. Working for the people means standing for all not just the rich , so your comment to me means very little. Rogan and people like him are racist and in it for the money and the companies who stand with his wrong doing are still the ANYTHING.
Sorry if my comment didn't land on you the way I thought it would.
I didn't make any specific examples because I thought most of the Press Run readers would get my comment about how both American mainstream & right-wing media have created a polarized political climate in your country.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my comment about the mostly white membership of the Republican Party being the major political force opposing any type of reforms in health care, immigration, criminal justice, taxation, etc.
While the Democratic Party isn't immune to resistance to change within its own ranks, the GOP has been very vocal in its opposition.
Excellent point.
You’re an idiot and so am I. That’s why I got killed by a train lol
yes, my former boss at Condé Nast Entertainment is the one who did this deal, given what this person now does at spotify. I think this person, who spent 20 plus years running TV networks, got the idea in their head that the digital world is free wheeling unlike that network stuff and you can say anything, so LET'S DO THIS. but if you are as clueless about politics in the real world as this person is, this is a recipe for disaster, and it has proven such as I and many others who know this person predicted it would. The idea that once you are able to broadcast ANY idea, that you should then go for the extremes for ratings, is too tempting for a suit whose compensation includes subscription numbers bonuses. always will be.
There is def this tech vibe that anything goes, nobody is responsible for content etc
it is clearly beyond time to revise Sec 230 of the DMCA - if you've got enough 'subscribers / viewers,' congratulations - you're a publisher!
(and no, I'm not suggesting that a a small web forum that has 1000 subscribers would be impacted - if a person wants to set up a small website to say /anything/ they should be able to, but beyond a certain scale - you've built a new kind of printing press...)
I also think that maybe it is also time to decide that since TCP/IP was developed by the government, is is a 'public good' (like the airwaves) and we can equate a DNS entry as the same as a broadcast license. (I also think we should include satellite transponders in this).
Thus FCC style limitations / rules / penalties could be made to apply to all large scale forms of public communication.
I'd really be interested in finding some lawyers from EFF and have them bat this around a bit.
Radio and TV networks had to adhere to strict standards for years thanks to FCC r regulations. Remember how Johnny Fever was fired for saying "booger" on the air? I know it was a comedy show but I would bet it happened to some DJ "in real life".
My dad, who was in radio for 60 years, told the story about a radio station which announced to its listeners that "an amoeba was loose", which resulted in widespread panic in their listening audience. I believe the FCC either levied a fine or suspended their license.
I do not understand the lingo but I have wondered WTF the FCC has been doing about sites and podcasts devoted to hate speech. They took out Howard Stern and haven't done a thing since.
the issue is; and sorry for going nerdy there earlier - the FCC only regulates *broadcast* standards. In other words, there needs to be a transmitter (big metal thing on a hill flinging electricity through the sky). This is why there are "7 words you can't say on the radio" (and in case you want to see George Carlin do it the only way he could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyBH5oNQOS0 )
Cable, Satellite, Internet - those aren't considered broadcast mediums. (This is why HBO was able to show movies with any rating, the "after dark" shows, etc). This is why Howard Stern went to Sirius/XM.
So perhaps the short version is, time to broaden the definition of the word "communication" for the FCC.
For those concerned about those 7 words on the internet; I think that the solution there might simply be technological - age ratings. YouTube already does for some content. (This will tell bored teenagers which content they *really* want to try to view. That "explicit lyrics" sticker - it really turned out to be mostly an advertisement!)
Long past time. To claim cable and the internet today are beyond "broadcast standards" thus making them exempt from regulation is laughable. Unfortunately they have very deep pockets and lobbyists making sure Congress doesn't change the rules.
its definitely a challenge; I wonder if the way-through is to get a state to do some regulation and include "any traffic that passes through the state."
Thank you for explaining it to me like I'm a five-year old. Yes, the FCC needs to recognize that we are living in the 21st century. I have an idea: let's elect Democrats who may actually care about this and change it? 😉
Kudos to you for surviving Condé Nast. I am fascinated by that entire empire.
My mom sent this to me. Short read and please check out the short YouTube link. Roided Rogan going after a woman with a PhD in Primatology for calling in and telling him there is no such thing as the "Bondo" ape. I can't get over how he immediately snaps. Obviously his screener gave him the heads up (as they do) but he absolutely let her have it and simply would not even let her say more than 2 words without talking over her. Imagine telling someone with a PhD to "look online" regarding something they've dedicated their entire life to!
https://futurism.com/joe-rogan-yelling-scientist
very interesting bc Rogan has very, very few woman guests on show; 90% are men and they don’t get treated this way
Exactly! You can throw in misogyny with the racism & crazy RW, conspiracy stuff.
Too little attention has been given to the association between misogyny and dangerous extremism. The author of a recent Guardian article, Joan Smith, urges officials to pay more attention to misogyny when looking at risk factors for radicalization that leads to terrorism regardless of underlying ideology:
“Groundbreaking research shows that extremist attackers are often united in their violent misogyny, whatever their ideology”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/05/many-terrorists-abuse-women-research-extremist-attackers-violent-misogyny
Wow. I think I'm probably alive today because I learned how to avoid people like Joe Rogan back in my bar-hopping days.
What a big baby bully!
As was the case with Limbaugh, Beck and now Tucker Carlson, the bigger the audience (and paycheck) the more outrageous the content. Enough is never too much when your goal is to call attention to yourself and enrage rather than inform. And like Limbaugh and his ilk, the immediate defense for clowns and grifters like Rogan is "free speech." Spotify is NOT subject to the first amendment. Rogan and "Quack Malone" have no *right* to spew their bullshit on Spotify, and Spotify has no obligation to let them do so.
I am shocked, absolutely shocked I tell you, to discover that Spotify is all about making money. Your calling Rogan the next Rush Limbaugh is well-spotted. As we all know, there is good money to be made talking sh*t - the right wing is a money-making machine for the grifters and con men who pray on their gullible base, telling them what they want to hear.
What Rogan is doing is not all that different from what shock jocks do on the radio - calculated outrageous behavior to entertain their listeners. The difference is they have to deal with the FCC over what they can and can't say. Digital media has no such constraints and they are cashing in while they can.
There are several hate media cottage industries. 1) Anti Hillary. 2) Anti Biden. 3) Anti Democratic Party. 4) Pro hate speech, white grievance, rage and fear. What ties them all together is hatred of Black people.
No one is stripping Joe Rogan of his First Amendment protections, but he is suffering from the consequences. The system is working as designed.
As for Spotify, I’ve been boycotting it since forever, mostly because I have a handful of favorite musicians who have said that they cannot make a living from the music being on Spotify and they cannot make a living without it being on Spotify. Some have even said that they wish for the bad old days of the labels controlling everything. I’m not sure that my Apple Music subscription is a solution, but I feel good that I’m not in any way supporting Joe Rogan.
Quite a few Americans seem to have lost the plot and are equating freedom of expression with the dangerous practice of encouraging stupidity. As adults, are we not supposed to know the difference between, say, a podcast about sexual behavior and one encouraging people to go out with guns and kill people? One is controversial and harms no one, but the other potentially inspires lethal acts. By the same token, Rogan and his ilk inspire reckless behavior by spreading lies about covid and vaccines, and soon we'll be seeing a toll of 1 million dead in the US. Why the obsession with a bullshit brand of "freedom" that has lost the truth of what freedom really means (it involves responsibility and reason, otherwise it is merely license)? America continues to dumb itself down by eschewing reason in the name of "but I want it, therefore I should have it."
We knew that there would be a race to see who would fill Rush Limbaugh's shoes. Joe Rogan won. However, at least there is finally some pushback against such a dangerous voice in contrast to the free pass Limbaugh was given. These folks throwing down their free speech cards need to understand that even in 2022, you can't yell fire in a public theatre. That of course reflects the misinformation on covid. His racist remarks is in a whole other category and simply should not be tolerated. I really wish that the left leaning billionaires would promote and fund fact based progressive journalism to counter the constant haranguing from the fascists news programs that have permeated our country.
Streaming screws nearly all musicians except for superstars, and Spotify screws them more than other services.
And then Spotify also has willingly embraced the tar baby that is Rogan. (Yes, I’m familiar with where that term came from and the irony here, I have to say, cracks me up.)
Rogan is a tough talking alpha ignoramus as is his right. It’s that he has an audience that’s concerning. Not that that makes him special; we just had a POTUS like him. (And for the good that did the nation, see this: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/06/opinion/covid-pandemic-policy-trust.html.)
Which is to say Spotify deserves Rogan.
Spotify went from a music-based company to a podcast one and it’s been very successful $$$. and now they’re willing to insult artists further. Will be interesting to see if more musicians stand up this week
What I’ve been wondering about is whether Spotify is out to be a profit-making business or a financial grift. Not that it matters.
As for streaming, it’s part of the current trend of disrupting a reasonably functional business in which the people who make the business a business get screwed. The classic example is Uber. The disrupting results in a business in which there isn’t all that much money to payout to creatives or workers. Again, streaming payments and Uber’s payments to its drivers.
Which brings us to an irony here, if you’re correct: Spotify moves from the sketchy economics of streaming to the highly questionable podcast business. Whether it’s much of a business is still an open question. And the ultimate question for Spotify here is what’s the argument that signing Rogan would do anything towards that goal. It seems now that I think about it, all they got for the money (besides the current tsuris) is publicity. But I would think for nearly all podcasters, being exclusive is not the way to go. In other words, without a huge upfront payment, there’s no upside for nearly any one of them to sign with Spotify.
Full disclosure: streaming is pretty good for us consumers though.
I don’t think there’s a difference between being a profit-making business and financial grift as long as you get away with it.
There’s a huge difference. Two different models. There is some overlap but even with that, companies are predominantly one or the other.
As I implied, if not made clear, I very occasionally try to figure out which Spotify is. They act like they’re in it to be a profitable business yet streaming is about crumbs and podcasting is even worse so I don’t know — nor care enough to do the research for an answer.
I was thinking of examples like all those banks lending institutions the issued those high risk mortgages, the prominent ratings organizations that gave top ratings to bundles of mortgages that were actually high risk. Those experiences show that even highly regarded profitable businesses can slide into grifting if there isn’t strong oversight and regulation. The push for profits over everything else that has dominated our corporate mindset since the 70s makes a shift into grifting far too likely.
That’s a profit-making business engaging in scamming — but financial businesses are outliers to my general rule. Banks (broadly speaking) are in business to and profit from grifts. But outside that exception, it’s *predominantly* one or the other I find.
Spotify is Swedish and Sweden is a country that constantly speaks peace and love while selling military hardware to anyone willing to pay.
They're "neutral" 🙄 so they'll sell to anyone and accept no responsibility
Not so neutral since they’re in the EU.
They aren’t neutral when it comes to profits, though.
"The Rock" brought something else to mind.
Anybody remember Cliven Bundy? He's the Nevada rancher who wouldn't pay his grazing fees, and this led to a standoff, threats of violence, the Bundy family becoming right-wing heroes, the Malheur takeover, you name it.
Nevada's republican leaders were very sympathetic toward him and his plight, and defending him ... until he made racist statements. Then they all walked it back. They included Governor Brian Sandoval, who in his first campaign and first term was a right-winger, then became a moderate republican when he was term-limited and actually accomplished some good things; now he is president of the university in Reno, which happens to be a Morrill Land Grant institution, meaning it uses land that Bundy thinks was his but actually belonged to Indigenous People.
Another was Dean Heller, who as a US senator kept pushing bipartisanship while failing to pass any major bipartisan legislation, kept changing his mind about Trump, lost his reelection bid, and now is running for governor and trying to sound like Trump is too liberal for him.
To put it simply, you can no longer be a decent human being and be a loyal republican. You also cannot be a decent human being and encourage Spotify in any way.
In what screwed up society would someone like Joe Rogan be worthy of a $100 million contract to spout belligerently ignorant, uneducated, racist BS? Oh, yeah ... right.
I am in despair over how Americans have changed in the last decade alone.
Though if you look back to the rise of Rush and his popularity, it's been going on for a few decades now. But the unvarnished racism and nastiness from 2008 on is breathtaking. All the guardrails are gone.
WTF are you even talking about? No one here is attacking the right because of their "ideas"—or what they used to (and for some true conservatives still) espouse, like limited government, free enterprise, etc.
We're calling out the people who are purposely dividing our society and debasing fellow citizens and making them sicker. Rogan can use the N word to his heart's content—but in an enlightened, inclusive society that aims for equality, he should expect to be criticized and even ostracized.
The right has become stronger because that aren't open to disagreement and debate among themselves. Look what just happened to Kinzinger and Cheney. GOP members of Congress are terrified of their base—both in the voting booth and real physical threats—so they stand by the craziest in their party rather than calling them out. The Right built a whole ecosystem that not only amplifies the GOP's message but shapes it. Fools on the far left give them ammunition but they are a small, small part. Most liberals and Dems don't embrace and parrot their message or viewpoint.
If you think you're playing devil's advocate, your failing. Your arguments are hollow and contradictory. I suggest you take a long look in the mirror.
The Right, and the MAGA crowd, have become a cult much as the party that supported Hitler became a cult. Humans are dangerously susceptible to cults and to dangerous ideologies, which history proves. Penny is a troll who loves to play the contrarian, but she does so at the risk of being ignored by other commenters. I refuse to engage with her because she has nothing of importance to say. You waste your time by trying to explain anything to her. I'm hoping she'll simply go away again.
I have always considered Spotify the AM Radio of streaming services. With Rogan, that point just gets hammered home, again and again and....
Thank you. The N-Word confession had gotten lost in all the falderol about music.
This brings it all together. A Covid/Racism National Disaster.